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Interview with heads of APSL Participants: Eng. Manuel Maria de Souza e Holstein Campilho, Chairman of APSL (MMC). Dr. Emidio Pinto, Vice President of APSL, responsible person for judges and judgement regulations (EP). Eng. João Ralão Duarte, General Secretary of APSL, APSL – judge / technical secretary (JRD). Dr. med. vet. Mathias Weis, Chairman of Cavalo Lusitano Switzerland CLS (MW). Translation (french to english): Dr. med. vet. Mathias Weis Introduction by Dr. med. vet. Mathias Weis (MW): Eng. Manuel Campilho, Dr. Emidio Pinto and Eng. João Ralão Duarte, Questions to João Ralão Duarte (JRD): MW: Since when does the PSL – studbook exist and who founded it? JRD: The PSL – Studbook was iniciated in 1967 by a group of breeders who were members of the Portuguese Association of breeders of selected breeds, directed by Fernando Sommer de Andrade. JRD: Le livre généalogique a été créé en 1967 par un groupe d’ éleveurs qui étaient membres de l’ association portugaise d’ éleveurs de races sélectionnées, dirigées par Fernando Sommer de Andrade. MW: Who founded the APSL, and when? JRD: The APSL was founded in 1990 by breeders of Lusitanians, according to the increasing number of animals. JRD: L’ APSL a été fondé en 1990 par les éleveurs de Lusitaniens, face a l’ augmentation du nombre d’ animaux. MW: What was the purpose to found an association for PSL – breeders? JRD: The APSL aims in protecting and promoting the Lusitano as well as in the management of the Stud-book, to guarantee the ethnic purity. In addition APSL undertakes big efforts to perfectionalize zootechnical aspects. JRD: L’ APSL a pour objet la défense et la promotion du Lusitanien, ainsi que la gestion du Stud – Book, afin d’ assurer la pureté ethnique et de concourir au perfectionnement zootechnique. MW: Let’ s speak about some numbers. How many breeding mares do you count? How many per country? JRD: We currently have around 4000 broodmares in the world, including about 2000 in Portugal, 600 in Brazil and 400 in France. JRD: Nous avons actuellement près de 4000 poulinières dans le monde entier, dont environ 2000 au Portugal, 600 au Brésil et 400 en France. How many breeding stallions, with about 15 to 20 ore more products per year, do you count? We count about 20 stallions with more than 15 to 20 products per year. On compte environ 20 étalons ayant plus de 15 à 20 produits par année. MW: Since I know about the existence of APSL, and this will be around 15 years, one name was always combined with APSL, just like a synonym, namely yours, João Ralão Duarte. Since when are you working for APSL? JRD: I am working for APSL since april 1992. JRD: Je travaille pour l’APSL depuis avril 1992. MW: Such a big association, like APSL, cannot work without the help of many persons, so how many persons are working as employees for APSL? JRD: We have five employees, that is to say: JRD: Nous avons cinque collaborateurs / collaboratrices, c’ est à dire: MW: Since APSL is a non profit organisation there must be as well some private persons which spend some time for APSL (in Portugal) just as enthusiasts and without salary. About how many persons are involved in this way? JRD: In addition to the employees we have the members of management and social bodies and the judges. JRD: En plus les collaborateurs, nous avons les membres de la direction et des organes sociaux et les juges. MW: Who is responsible for horse breeding in general in Portugal, how does this interact with PSL – breeding and what are the consequences for APSL? JRD: The Foundation Alter Real (Fundação Alter Real, FAR) is the body in charge of horse breeding in Portugal. We, APSL, have good relations with FAR. The regulations are developed by the APSL and approved by this official body (FAR). JRD: La Fondation Alter Real (Fundação Alter Real, FAR) est l’ organisme en charge de l’ élevage chevalin au Portugal. Nous entretenons de bonnes relations avec la FAR. Les réglementations sont élaborées par la APSL et homologuées par cet organisme officiel (FAR). MW: Which role does FAR (Fundação Alter Real), since the management changed, play today? JRD: FAR has the same role as the former " National Stud Service“ (SNC), which is to supervise the stud-book managed by APSL. JRD: La FAR a le mème role que l’ ancien „Service des Haras Nationaux“ (SNC), qui consiste à superviser la gestion du Livre Généalogique effectuée par l’ APSL. MW: How is the PSL – breeding organised and structured worldwide? JRD: In countries which have associations, foreign breeders must address themselves to the association of their country, which ensures the connections with APSL.
In Portugal and in countries that don’t have an association, the breeders are obliged to address directly to APSL. JRD: Dans les pays oû il y a des associations, les éleveurs étrangers doivent s’ adresser à l’ association de leur pays, qui assure la liaison avec l’ APSL. Au Portugal et dans les pays, oû il n’ y a pas d’ association, les éleveurs s’ adressent directement à l’ APSL. En ce qui concerne les laboratoires, ils doivent être agrées par ISAG. Les résultats sont envoyés à l’ APSL dans tous les cas, qu’ il y ait ou non une association homologue. Questions to Eng. Manuel Campilho (MMC), chairman of APSL MW: Which Chairmen where involved since the foundation of APSL? Could you list them chronologically, including indicating the time they stood? MMC: Arq. Arsénio Raposo Cordeiro, from 1990 to 1992. MMC: Arq. Arsénio Raposo Cordeiro, de 1990 à 1992. MW: The following question will eventually be quite a difficult and complexe one but as well quite an important one. The question itself sounds quite simple: what was the aim of PSL – breeding in earlier times and what is the aim of PSL – breeding today? What are the changes respectively the developments within the foundation times and today? What do you think, are the main changes? MMC: In the beginning, when the Stud Book was established in 1967, the objective was to gather a group of horses which had well known origins and which respected the standards of the breed. It was this goal which was followed by a group of connaisseurs, with Fernando Sommer MMC: Dans un premier temps, lorsque le livre généalogique a été créé en 1967, l’ objectif était de réunir un groupe de chevaux qui avaient des origines connues et qui respectaient les standards de la race. C’ est cet objectif que s’ est fixé un groupe de connaisseurs, avec Fernando Sommer d’ Andrade à leur tête. Plus tard, lorsque le livre généalogique a été intégré dans l’ APCRS, il y a eu un processus de consolidation de la race et des methodes d’ inscription au livre généalogique. MW: This process, was it already performed or influenced by APSL? MMC: APSL was created in 1990, according to the observed development and growth. MMC: L’ APSL était créée en 1990, face au développement et à la croissance observés. MW: And how was the development of Lusitano breeding furtheron? MMC: After there was reached a group of animals which was consolidated in its appearance respective to the standards of the breed, we began to attach more and more importance to the functionality. So, since 1993 only stallions which were ridden were admitted to breed. In 1998, the paternity tests began to be performed by the DNA – test method. Furthermore we started a new modality - working equitation - because we think that this could establish an excellent market for the products. MMC: Après avoir rassemblé un groupe d’ animaux ayant leur apparence consolidée selon les standards de la race, nous avons commencé à accorder de plus en plus d’ importance à la fonctionalité. A partir de 1993, seul les étalons montés ont été admis. En 1998, les tests de paternité ont commencé à être faits par la méthode de l’ ADN et nous avons lancé la promotion d’ une nouvelle modalité – l’ équitation de travail - car nous pensons, qu’ elle peut constituer un excellent débouché pour les produits. MW: Could you give us some informations about the very recent projects or plans you, respectively APSL, have? MMC: Since march 2005, the moment of elections of social bodies which I preside, there were defined two big axels of intervention: - on the operational level: Creation of two new bodies in order to make the process of taking decisions more flexible: the enlarged Direction and the International Coordination Council. A plan to approach to the Alter Real Foundation (former National Stud Service SNC), and specially to offer a possibility of consulting for all interested persons, via Internet, worldwide datas related to the Lusitano, as well as obtaining the results of affiliation controls more rapidly. - On the functional level: Modification of the Studbook Reglement, particularly concerning the possibility of reevaluation of animals in order to eventually reach a higher note than the first time (Book of Reproductive Animals) or to get the admission by a second try (Book of Reproductive Animals), as well as the artificial insemination post mortem. Support of the modalities with the aim to develop the functionality of the Lusitano: Working Elaboration of a rule book for judges (will be available soon) Embryo Transfer (remark MW: in the meantime this procedure is allowed, according to MMC: Depuis mars 2005, moment de l’ élection des organes sociaux que je préside, deux grands axes d’ intervention ont été définis: - Au plan opérationnel: Plan de rapprochement avec la Fondation Alter Real (ancien „Service des Haras Nationaux“ SNC), en particulier la possibilité de consultation par tous les intéressés, via Internet, des données relatives aux Lusitanien dans le monde, ainsi que l’ obtention plus rapide des résultats des contrôles de filiation. - Au plan fonctionnel: Modification du règlement du Livre Généalogique de la race Lusitanienne, notamment en ce qui concerne la réévaluation des animaux en vue d’ une meilleure note (Livre des Reproducteurs), la réadmission des animaux (Livre des Reproducteurs), ainsi que l’ insémination artificielle avec de la semance post mortem. Soutien des modalités afin de développer la fonctionalité du Lusitanien: Equitation de Travail, Attelage et Dressage. Elaboration d’ un Règlement des Juges (à présenter bientôt). Transfert d’ embryons (remarque MW: c’ est permis aujourd’ hui selon un règlement spécial). MW: You mentioned, that functionality and support in the sport became aspects with increasing importance. Could you give us some informations about results of the Lusitano in sportive events? MMC: The main titles reached by Lusitanos were the following: Working Equitation: Driving: MMC: Les principaux titres obtenus sont les suivantes: Equitation de Travail:
Champion d’ Europe 1998 to 2001, 2004, 2007 Attelage: MW: A quite impressive list! Obviously, the Lusitano is not „only“ a very good horse for bull fighting or leisure, but as well predestinated for the sport! Do you have some general comments about the Lusitano as a sport horse? MMC: I would like to point out the extended efforts performed by APSL within the promotion of our horse, by its presence at the main international events, with the inalienable support of everybody: breeders, owners and riders. Even if the results obtained till now are not like we expected, the Lusitano breed was all the same the second of the most frequently represented breeds at the Olympic games at Peking 2008, just behind the Hannoverians (with 13 horses) and in front of the Danish (with 6 horses). MMC: Je tiens à souligner les efforts déployés par l’ APSL dans la promotion de notre cheval, par sa présence aux principaux évènements internationaux, avec le soutien indispensable de tous: éleveurs, propriétaires et cavaliers. Questions to Dr. Emidio Pinto (EP): MW: Dr. Emidio Pinto, you are vice president of APSL and, …..what will be perhaps even more interesting for our members and interested persons,….. you are the reponsible person for the judging system of APSL and for the judges. Considering these facts, my first question is: how many judges are presently working for APSL? EP: There are in the moment totally 14 judges worldwide: Arsénio Raposo Cordeiro (P) EP: En ce moment il y a 14 juges dans le monde: Arsénio Raposo Cordeiro (P) MW: What kind of education does an APSL judge have respectively need? EP: Theoretical and practical cliniques are organised to prepare the future judges At the end of the judges formation („judges of the breed“) there will be a report, created by two APSL judges. This report will then be sent to the technical secretary. If he accepts this report, the candidate will then be judge. Beginning of 2009 the new judges Reglement will be ready and will fix the rules which can be applicated in this subject. EP: Des formations théoretiques et pratiques sont organisées pour préparer les futurs juges Au debut de l’ année 2009 le Règlement de juges sera prèt et il fixera les règles applicables en la matière. MW: The APSL judges have a profound knowledge about the PSL, many of them are PSL – breeders by their own and / or are involved within the PSL – scene and almost all of them know most of the breeders and horses. So it seems to be very difficult for a judge, to deliver an objective judgement. How do you manage this problem? EP: first we try to choose persons which have proved their integrity and independance. Then, every year we organise meetings which aim in improving the control of judging criterias. And, even if there are no fixed rules about this subject, we take care, that we find judges, which don’ t have to tight connections to the breeders or owners of animals participating at a certain festival. It would be, of course, very much easier to have persons which are completely independant from the equestrian scene, but at the end, which would be their knowledge about the Lusitano breed? EP: D’ abord, nous essayons de choisir des personnes qui fassent preuve d’ intégrité et d’ indépendance. Puis, nous organisons chaque année des rencontres sur le contrôle des critères et, même s’ il n’ y a pas de règles à ce sujet, nous tâchons de choisir des juges qui ne soient pas proche des éleveurs / propriétaires des animaux concurrents. Ce serait certainement plus facile d’ avoir des personnes complètement indépendant du milieu equestre, mais alors, quelle serait leur connaissance de la race? MW: Since the number of breeding shows and gradings increase every year, it is obviously necessary to have more judges. What is your plan to resolve this problem? EP: When we consider the actual situation, especially the increasing number of festivals and judgements, it is absolutely mandatory that we increase the number of judges in order to satisfy the momentaneous needs. If we reach this, the judges would not any more be supercharged in such a degree. As I already indicated, we organise judge formations with the goal to increase the number of accredited judges. Since the formations of judges are organised, we ask the foreign associations to present us their potential candidates, if there are any. EP: Face à la réalité actuelle, notamment l’ augmentation du nombre de concours et de jugements, il faut absolument accroître le nombre de juges pour repondre aux besoins. Les juges eux – mêmes seront moins surchargés. Comme je l’ ai déja indiqué, nous organisons des formations afin d’ accroître le nombre de juges. Lorsque les formations sont organisées, nous demandons aux associations étrangères d’ indiquer leur candidats, si elles en ont. MW: When do you think, you will be ready to send the first new judges to breeding shows? EP: probably in 2009. EP: probablement en 2009. MW: Will you send new judges only to shows in foreign countries or will you use them as well for the shows in Portugal? EP: We don’ t make any distinction between the quality of the judges and the competitions or festivals. We send our judges wherever they are needed. |
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